Interview with Alexander Hacke and Danielle de Picciotto on their new project: “The Ship Of Fools”

When did you first discover the novel by Sebastian Brant?
Danielle: I was reading the book “Madness and Civilization” by Michel Foucault in 2007 in which he mentions  “The Ship Of Fools” quite often – I decided to read it too and was struck by the very first paragraph:
“All lands in Holy Writ abound
And works to save the soul are found,
The bible, Holy Fathers lore
And other such in goodly store,
So many that I feel surprise
To find men growing not more wise
But holding writ and lore in spite.
The whole world lives in darksome night“
I could not believe that a book written in 1494 could be so contemporary and immediately thought it would be perfect for a live show.

What interested you most about the material?
Alexander: Besides the fact that the book touches on religion, politics, philosophy and culture it was also Europe’s first bestseller. Even though it was written such a long time ago the theme is so contemporary it could have been written today..
Danielle and I are known to be very diverse in the different projects we work in – I have worked on experimental, industrial, country and Turkish music amongst others and Danielle is known for her art, films and music. We were looking for something in which we could create an interdisciplinary universe – presenting our different talents and in this way showing how they interlock with each other. “The Ship of Fools“ was perfect for this aspect. We could present each fool with a specific music and art style that fit the character perfectly – presenting the diversity of cultures and of our work.

How come so little changed since 1494 in terms of people’s behavior? Does that mean that we are never going to learn?
Danielle: Our goal was not to answer questions with our interpretation – we are just as “foolish” as all the fools around and it would presumptuous to act as if we were wiser. We chose the fools we could identify with most and tried to diagnose both sides – the fascinating and unhealthy side of a characteristic – and tried creating mirrors of both, portraying the ambivalence they have aroused in mankind from the very beginning of our civilization.
Take greed, for example. It is important to aspire to achievement but unhealthy to want too much. Or sloth – it is good to relax and take things easy, unhealthy if it causes stagnation.
Everything has a good and bad side to it and examining these different fools reminds one of all the different possibilities one has. I suppose the main objective we have with our performance is that we hope the audience leaves thinking more deeply on the different tools that are used for the pursuit of happiness.

The music you created for Ship of Fools has no boundaries – it goes from country to rock to electronic music. Can you have this kind of stylistic freedom in your own project? Can you imagine Einstürzende Neubauten doing a country song?
Alexander: We created the show on a residency in Canada. We would sit down everyday and discuss what color, sound, shape or taste a certain fool has before we created the scenes – this was lots of fun. Of course the different fools also reminded us of different people, which influenced the different music styles. I have always kept my freedom in playing different music with different projects and bands – this is imperative for me to be happy. Each band has a different role in my life and I would not expect anybody to be something they are not.
Danielle: I think that as an artist one always creates ones own “idealistic” world – I write the music I would like to hear, I paint the drawings I would like to see and initiate shows that I would like to visit. Alexander and myself are lucky in that way that we have similar tastes and visions, and even if we have different influences the differences inspire us to new things we would not have found on our own.

What is the advantage of doing project as a couple – a creative couple as well as a married one?
Alexander: I have known Danielle for 23 years and have always admired her for being an extremely talented artist – as singer of the Space Cowboys and the Ocean Club together with Gudrun Gut, the co-initiator of the Love Parade in Berlin and the creator of beautiful artwork. We were working together before being a couple and becoming a couple/getting married has had the effect of our interaction becoming even more intense. 
The things I really appreciate about working with Danielle is that it includes working with different art forms – she is extremely diverse; everything is possible. When I was small I loved drawing, something I had almost forgotten during the years. In the shows we do the art and the music are meant to be equal – no one “accompanies“ the other – something which I consider very contemporary and I would like to see more of.
If somebody thinks our show is simply a concert of mine with Danielle accompanying me with visuals they have completely missed the point.
Danielle: As both of us are full time artists and we don’t really do anything except work 24 hours a day on our projects it would be difficult to be together with somebody outside of this work. Some people probably would not be able to stand being together as much, but we have been lucky enough to find a counterpoint with whom it is possible. Both of us are very intense, forgetting everything around when working, so even if we are together all the time we are often not aware of the other person being there. I consider myself very lucky in how Alexander supports me in my work and try to support his visions to the same extent.

I understand you created the performance during two months you spent in Canada. Where specifically? Was it tough to find a time for a “break” like that?
Danielle: We have been performing at the “Funny Farm” in Meaford, Ontario, in Canada for three years now .The artist‘s farm belongs to friends of ours: Gordon Monahan and Laura Kikauka. They are trying to turn their farm into an artist’s colony by inviting people from all over the world to perform at the festival ”The Electric Eclectics Festival” and we were invited to stay for two months last year – as a residency to work on our new show.
Alexander: As it is very difficult to create a new show at home – constantly being disturbed by the phone, bills or friends‘ birthday parties – we had decided to work on the project in another country and this offer was perfect. We are trying to do more residencies on an international basis because we enjoy being in different cultures and interacting with new artists. That is why we have decided to have guest musicians in our “Ship of Fools“ performances as often as possible. In Prague we will have Petr Venkrbec (saxophone), Jiří Kollman (percussion) and Pavel Zajíček (as narrator) participating.

Did Alexander help Danielle with filming? Did he contribute in any way to the shoot?
Alexander: The only thing I filmed was the interview of Danielle in our documentary.
Otherwise we always set out together with our different equipment: Danielle with the camera and me with my musical recording device and would go to parades, markets, loud streets, boat harbors for material.
Danielle: I did not use anybody else’s material for the visuals – everything in our show was either filmed or drawn by myself. The animations are ink drawings I did on paper and then animated with Photoshop and Final Cut.
But Alexander and I did a project years ago in which we filmed our feet while walking through Berlin nightlife for 18 hours – it was fun and we were pretty drunk in the end! But that was the only time he actually participated in the filming. I think it would be fun if in the future if he would do more in that direction – he always adds hilarious humor when he thinks visually. 

Where did the filming take place?
Alexander: We recorded visual and audio material in Canada, Venice, Athens, NYC and Berlin
Do you think we can still get back to nature and learn from it? Or is life in the big cities completely cut off from its rhythm?
Danielle: In Berlin Alexander and I live in a little house with a garden right in the middle of the city so it is possible to integrate nature into city life – even just having flowers in your apartment can be relaxing. I personally think that it is very important to go out into nature as often as possible because sitting under a tree and watching a sunset makes a lot of things in city life seem silly. Its coming down to basics, I guess. Nature doesn’t have fools ... except us.